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Post by tdogg on Dec 15, 2007 1:15:09 GMT -5
quite honestly i can throw a bomb, with or without PA with some Receivers so hut is right about that. hell if my WR is 96 speed. and ur CB is 88 i can toss it up there . would that be considered cheese as well.
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Post by ChuckDiesel on Dec 15, 2007 6:37:52 GMT -5
The deep pass has always been a problem in madden...it is the hardest play to stop b/c YOU have to stop it. If you play against a WR with 96sp or greater then they will beat your cb and saf. during the span of the game. This is the one reason that I play with the SS or FS 98% of the time. This is a sim league and I have seen a quite a few teams fake the draw on 3rd and long. I for one go for a first down if I have a 3rd and long and don't just take my rb on a draw. Limiting PA gives more ppl a chance to complain and for guys like mwg it takes away from his game Your last 2 games vs. the Jets and Giants, how many TD's and long plays to your WR's were off PA bombs? What % of those TD's and plays are attributed to the PA bomb from your last 2 games vs. the Jets and Giants? Is the PA bomb most of your offensive production?
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Post by ChuckDiesel on Dec 15, 2007 6:44:19 GMT -5
quite honestly i can throw a bomb, with or without PA with some Receivers so hut is right about that. hell if my WR is 96 speed. and ur CB is 88 i can toss it up there . would that be considered cheese as well. I don't think that's cheese. The diff. between lobbing it up and PA is that with PA the guy is just WIDE-A$$ open and especially vs. zone. Depends on the defensive play called. Look, when I see box scores where most of the yardage and TD's come due to receivers with 5 catches for 260 yards, I believe I know what's going on. And if that's most of someone's offense, that's pretty sad. Whether PA or just lobbing it up. Abuse is abuse. Tell me this - if I have a QB with a good arm and some FAST wide receivers, how many bombs per game is okay? 7-10 completed bombs of 40+ yards? Who likes playing against that?
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Post by hutrunhut on Dec 15, 2007 9:22:33 GMT -5
chuck about your post towards my games....I really play differently every game. If I can set up a play action bomb I will. I might even throw in a PA randomly. I don't remember all of my touchdowns in those two games and some of the td's were PA's just like others have done to me. I think your making a mountain out of a mole hill; Madden isn't perfect and you can't afford to not manually cover the deep pass and expect to stop it. As far as how many bombs per game; you really need to be watching the game in order to know that answer. If you throw a bomb(PA or not) everyother play then why wouldn't the defense adopt and stop it? I don't think anyone should throw that many but I would love for someone to try that on me.
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Post by tdogg on Dec 15, 2007 9:58:42 GMT -5
I hate to throw people under the bus. but I know where Chuck is getting at. My game vs. the Bengals, I had to give up simply because I refused to play with someone playling like that. 7 catches for 194 yards and 4 td's by Chad johnson all before the 3 min mark in the 2nd qtr was just f****n pathetic. Like I said i hate to throw people under the bus. but I was pissed. A game shouldnt go like that. those should be stats by the end of the 4th but those were the stats 3 mins before halftime. hell jason witten had 15 catches last sunday but I dont think it was for more than 120 yards.
Chuck after that explanation you have to understand I really really do feel like it is the crapiest move in madden.
I just don't see how you can institue a rule though that says one PA bomb per game. people slip. and will accidently do it twice under desperation. especially if your losing.
I played about everyone who has debated on this topic. and all of you know I play straight. but when im losing and bad. I start bombing. doing any means neccessaary.
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Post by Commish on Dec 15, 2007 12:27:55 GMT -5
I like the idea of no PA on 3rd/4th down and 7 or more....
I think there is a fine line people can ride on PA deep throws. We all have a pretty good idea of what is str8 and what is cheese...but there is a line and we all feel differently on what side some gameplay would fall. It really comes down to the integrity of the individual playing...
The reason this gets more attention that overblitzing, over-passing, overzoning or whatever...is some teams can be almost impossible to stop due to the players on the team (Pats, Bengals, Colts, Cowboys, etc). And a good player using them can take advantage of their opponent. We need to be careful though to see whether someone is abusing an AI glitch...or just getting beat by a better combination of team/player.
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Post by tdogg on Dec 15, 2007 13:46:01 GMT -5
I sorta say better WR/QB combo. honestly like i said earlier I probably wouldnt complain if a team like the chargers is doing it, simply because im not scared of any of their WR's (although there fast) or their sub par QB. but if its a team like my niners where Alex Smith is tossing it up to Darryl Jackson no one thats not threatning either with jacson only having like a 89 or 92 speed. Teams lik u mentioned above, Pats, Cowgirls, Bengals Colts. all have that killer combo and outta those 4 teams particularly they have 2 threats. the question is is that taken advantage of the matchups or just simply cheesing because u have the power too just toss them up everytime and u have a great line to protect you i dont do many PA bombs, matter of fact in this whole season I dont think ive done any that got I got scores. from. but I do alot of PA cross routes. in routes out routes.
i say keep it no pa on 3rd/4th and 7 above.
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Post by ChuckDiesel on Dec 15, 2007 16:45:13 GMT -5
I like the idea of no PA on 3rd/4th down and 7 or more.... I think there is a fine line people can ride on PA deep throws. We all have a pretty good idea of what is str8 and what is cheese...but there is a line and we all feel differently on what side some gameplay would fall. It really comes down to the integrity of the individual playing... The reason this gets more attention that overblitzing, over-passing, overzoning or whatever...is some teams can be almost impossible to stop due to the players on the team (Pats, Bengals, Colts, Cowboys, etc). And a good player using them can take advantage of their opponent. We need to be careful though to see whether someone is abusing an AI glitch...or just getting beat by a better combination of team/player. Now that you played Cincy (and not to bust on the owner) do you think the PA bombs to Chad Johnson and Hoosyourmama were a bit too much? If too much, what do you propose?
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Post by daddybigdraws on Dec 15, 2007 17:24:04 GMT -5
I will preface this by saying, I do not have a problem with a player throwing deep passes. I hate playing people that do it because, like Hut said, it is hard to stop. My only issue is the playaction passes on third and long distances. That is not realistic and I have been getting abused by guys who do it (in league play and in lobbies). It's cheese IMO.
I recall playing Shanks and it was 3rd and inches and I thought for sure he would run that damm FB dive with Ronnie Brown so I committed for it, but he called a playaction and Ted Ginn was wide open. I don't have a problem with that. Don't get me wrong I was pissed...lol!! But more upset at myself then anything.
I guess what I am trying to say is, if I am going to lose a game, let it be because another player called a better game or his stick skills are superior then mine. Don't let it be because of some Madden B.S.
That's all I have to say on this topic. I hope the Commish take my statement under consideration.
Go Dolphins (3-13 baby!!)
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Post by ChuckDiesel on Dec 15, 2007 18:41:47 GMT -5
I recall playing Shanks and it was 3rd and inches and I thought for sure he would run that damm FB dive with Ronnie Brown so I committed for it, but he called a playaction and Ted Ginn was wide open. I don't have a problem with that. Don't get me wrong I was pissed...lol!! But more upset at myself then anything. . Totally agree.....PA bomb on 3rd and inches is a great call and I'll never call that cheese. Personally, I don't believe I ever throw more than 3-4 bombs (not even PA) per game......and that's whether I have the weapons (a good QB and WR) or not, as I do now with the Titans (hard to throw long so I may throw once a game, if that). In SAPML where we average maybe 20-25 pass attempts per game at most, it just doesn't seem right to throw more than 3-4 bombs per game, but I'm seeing WAY more than that on less attempts against me, and that tends to be MOST of their offense. That's what frustrates me. Pass about 20 times and nearly half the attempts are bombs or PA bombs? Come on.
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Post by daddybigdraws on Dec 17, 2007 17:25:59 GMT -5
Chuck, while I certainly understand your frustration, I think the league would be charterring on dangerous territory if it start dictating what decisions a player can make in a pass play. Honestly if I have a guy wide open down field, I am throwing it to him. Every route I run a receiver deep, middle and short distances. Should you play a defense that leaves my WR open for a 40 yard bomb I would be a fool not to take advantage of it.
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Post by Commish on Dec 17, 2007 17:59:47 GMT -5
Chuck,
In my game against the Bengals i saw no abuse...he PA deep passed on me twice...and both for TDs. One had my guy beat...the other one i didnt react quick enough to call the pass commit which left Johnson wide open.
The third long TD i actually had a defender behind the receiver and took control then blew the Interception attempt which let Johnson take it to the house.
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Post by ChuckDiesel on Dec 24, 2007 18:41:06 GMT -5
Okay, what do we say over/under is on PATS vs. BENGALS playoff sapml game? 80 pts? Lots of passing yards? Bombs away? I predict at least 3 receivers averaging 30-40 yards per catch. Mix a few runs in and toss up at least 20-25 bombs (half of which will be PA bombs) apiece.
My prediction:
Pats 58 Bengals 41
R.Moss, 11-308 yds Stallworth, 5-148 yds
C.Johnson, 4-133 yds Housyourmama, 5-148 yds
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Post by tdogg on Dec 24, 2007 20:31:45 GMT -5
wait didn't, Pats score like 77 on the Giants, which was F'in ridicioulous to me. i hope they beat the hell out of eachother honestly, i dont care who wins. but I see ur stats like this
C.Johnson 8-280 Housyoamama.ama 6-130
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