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Post by GoPanthers98 on Oct 27, 2004 15:33:54 GMT -5
It's not so much of a problem when you do the "R1 then UP on the D-pad or when you do the R1 then UP on the analog, either one of those by itself itsn't bad. It is when you combine them both that the Defensive Ends, literally, run right past the offensive tackles. Look for it this sunday, you'll see that DE's run past OT's on obvious passing downs and get the QB too if he does not step up in the pocket..
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The Beast™
Starter
Did I just say that outloud?
Posts: 351
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Post by The Beast™ on Oct 27, 2004 15:38:09 GMT -5
I think that we need to enforce the rules a little more and be a little more strict not so lenient. We all need to play the game as str8 as possible and limit bump and run and blitzing and nano blitzes and all that crap that some people here do. It doesn't show much skill when you rely on that crap and it doesn't make you a better baller. I have taken on the new role of outhinking my opponent and out-scheming him rather than who can get away with the most bump and run and blitz packages in order to win the game. Don't take this the wrong way Pet... But you gotta practice what you preach...
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Post by dawgs18 on Oct 27, 2004 15:52:41 GMT -5
Actually, I disagree with you Shanks. When someone is in Quarter defense and they use the double combo it is even more devastating. I have looked at this in practice mode. The Defensive Ends zip right past the offensive tackles, and the offensive guards/center stand there and block no one. That is real life. This is a video game. No comparison.
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Post by Petrags23 on Oct 27, 2004 16:05:00 GMT -5
Don't take this the wrong way Pet... But you gotta practice what you preach... Same for you bud. You were my first experience with the double combo with the d-line, which is why we are all discussing this now. Manimal, you are always one to make comments on everyone else but when someone throws something back at you, then it's a problem. "You can dish . it out but you can't take it."
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Post by hackett on Oct 27, 2004 16:09:57 GMT -5
i step up in the pocket.....believe me after playing with peyton manning for the past three seasons that is the only way to get decent time. i will say that this still only works around 50% of the time to prevent a sack against the "loop di doo". add to that the b-n-r, blitzing lb's up the middle, dropped passes, dropped passes because of the "hit stick", and straight up "bad passes", it is almost immpossible to run a "straight" offense. resorting to "money" plays is not the style we as a league want to play. why would we want to waste half the game countering this when we can call a "variety" of plays. i don't think it will take anything away from the defense. maybe it will make us all learn how to play real defense instead of resorting to this crap.
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Post by Petrags23 on Oct 27, 2004 16:10:53 GMT -5
That is real life. This is a video game. No comparison. I don't understand what you mean, Dawgs. What I said was what I thought about Madden, not real life. ?
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Post by dawgs18 on Oct 27, 2004 16:18:02 GMT -5
Look for it this sunday, you'll see that DE's run past OT's on obvious passing downs and get the QB too if he does not step up in the pocket.. GOGIANTS98
Pet this is what I meant to quote, sorry.
There is a difference and Hackett hit it on the head.
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Post by Petrags23 on Oct 27, 2004 16:25:32 GMT -5
Ok gotcha. I can understand if it is a dominant defensive end running right past a poor offensive tackle, like Kearse or Simeon Rice or J. Taylor, someone along those lines. But with any DE it will be effective, which I think is a little ridiculous.
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Post by Poundtherock on Oct 27, 2004 17:04:37 GMT -5
I agree somewhat with everything each person says (man, ain't that riding the fence. I'm not supposed to sound like the Commish, ;D But everybody makes a point. The only thing that I see is trying keep the sanctity (spell?) of as clean as simulation as possible. I agree with Hack on some points he made. Before 2005 came along I can remember having to look and see where the opponent's offense was the strongest, where it was the weakest, and then game plan. Some of you may not like that but I do, . Now, I don't have to because Madden '05 does it for you. A 60 rated DE end can beat a 90 rated tackle to the QB. Is this not what we are talking about in bring it back to equality? I'm not saying punish one of our guys who have one of the low rated teams because "any given Sunday," you know. The stuff that Tiburon embelished in '05 was nothing but for the arcade people as soon after distribution to PSA people, lo and behold, Madden '05 was in the arcade houses. The type of defensive stuff that EA added is nothing but for the arcade houses, IMO. Past history attests to that. I don't think the league.....................oops, a brain fart. I think everybody in the league wants to be competitive, and I can see where some of the guys with the weaker teams look at the "new" defensive AI as I look at my 1873 Colt .45 Peachmaker, "the equalizer," i.e., at 50 paces you can take 5 shots at me with your high-powered offense (.45 Automatic) and miss, and I will have to only take one shot at you with a sure-fired gut shot (Biltz). You're dead on the spot (funble/int) or you bleed to death (sack loss 10-15 yards). I know the analogy is crude but I hope you get the picture. Everybody cannot be please in this scenario but we can bring a little relief to all. I am un-sure if we can even allow one blitzer on defense with the spread line (sorry, Commish), because there are so many ways to bring that blitzer. Seems like even the players who are proponents of using the spread/blitz scenario agree that maybe the Playmakers nor the loop-di-doo be used in conjunction with the spread line. As for the spread of 4 linemen versus 3 linemen, I agree with Petrags that when there are just 3 spread it does seem like DEs can get in much quicker. Right now, I'm feeling that from the posts here, that all those owners, including me, would just as well have no blitzes or Playmakers with the spread line so as to be clear and concise on the rule. If we use one Playmaker, then which one? Which position? What down is acceptable? I see another can of worms. ;D Whatever we decide, let's ease up on the personal verbage. I know that this is a hot topic but we are here to converse with each other and reach an amicable solution. I got to quit talking to the Commish, I'm beginning to sound like a nice guy. NOT! ;D ;D
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Post by Petrags23 on Oct 27, 2004 18:00:12 GMT -5
PTR, lay off the long posts, I get about 1/3 of the way through before I realize that it's just too much reading!
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Post by NikPG on Oct 27, 2004 18:07:15 GMT -5
Im fairly new here but i need to express my opinion on this. You DO allow BnR blitzing which is a 100 times more effective in Madden than it should be, yet you want to outlaw this? A couple of the games ive played here guys relied on Bnr a ton and from the posts ive read many here use it. The dline move creates a lot of pressure yea but can be beat a lot easier and i cant see anyone having serious problems against it unless they drop back 15 yards and like to wait on slow developing routes every pass play. It also leaves huge gaps to run thru.... Im not complaining about either, but when you start limiting the use of the basic audibles of the game when you already have a rule limiting you to the use and movement of ONE defensive player pre snap you are getting into the area of 'over control' of the rules IMO.....
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Post by Petrags23 on Oct 27, 2004 18:20:28 GMT -5
About your email, Shanks, I think that even 50-60% of bump and run is too much.
I am in another league, where the rule is that you cannot use it more than 2 times per 3 downs (4th down does not count).
This seems to work well as a general rule on bump and run.
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Post by dawgs18 on Oct 27, 2004 18:25:47 GMT -5
Nik,
I believe the rules commitee is gonna change some things on the BNR. And when we have these revisions it will be clear what we can and cannot do. I think we went into this year and thouht EA was gonna balance things, but guess no. Maybe next year.
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Post by Poundtherock on Oct 27, 2004 18:33:40 GMT -5
PTR, lay off the long posts, I get about 1/3 of the way through before I realize that it's just too much reading! Petrags, you are young, you of all people should be able to digest thought patterns more than us elderly folks. Has Madden taken over your brain? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Gladiator on Oct 27, 2004 18:38:43 GMT -5
I`m a lot late on this but I agree that some members use B-N-R entirely too much. With a team rated as low as mine, players who B-N-R over 60% of the time really handcuff me. Add spreading the line, playmakering, a blitz from a LB or two, and even bringing everybody into the box but calling a zone or coverage defense, and forget me moving the ball at all. (And I have seen members do all of this on one play believe it or not!)
No offense to whomever is labbing this defensive spead topic, and finding ways to beat it but try to lab it with a poor offense squad such as the Texans, Bengals, or Raiders against a high powered defense that has good LB`s for blitzing. I have not been too successful but am willing to hear what results others have had. ;D
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