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Post by Commish on Dec 5, 2004 21:21:56 GMT -5
Feel free to expand on the poll with your opinions and reasons...no fingerpointing or bashing of other members please.
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Post by Tony79 on Dec 6, 2004 8:47:31 GMT -5
its hard to put a limit, but i think its abuse when someone is in third and long and thats the play they use. you know if someone uses it on 1st or 2nd down, i dont get mad, its the people that use it on 3rd and long and do the roll out with the QB to that side so its just unstopable. anthony
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Post by dazednconfused on Dec 6, 2004 9:03:13 GMT -5
I think it is easy to stop. It is when someone runs it alot you need to cover that area of the field alot more and that leaves the middle wide open. I really don't run it at all. I may have a guys on the route that i may have to throw it to but it is not a huge source of my offense. The only thing I have had a problem with in the league is the bump and run but that person has gone away lol. What ever the ruling is i'm good with it. Dazed. Dazed
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Post by ewagsea on Dec 6, 2004 9:25:20 GMT -5
Ummm...what's a corner route. No, I'm not kidding.
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Post by Tony79 on Dec 6, 2004 10:38:03 GMT -5
but see DAZE the bump n run can help you on the corner routes, enabling the receiver taking longer to get on his route and return hoping you get pressure. My point on the corner routes are the guys that throw there numer 1 receiver in the slot and then roll out in the direction of the corner route. its nearly unstoppable unless you have a great secondary. I almost refuse to throw corner routes in this game, cuase i know how it pisses me off so bad.
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Post by jpar on Dec 6, 2004 10:52:57 GMT -5
Corner routes can be stopped, but it's very difficult to do with the current guidelines in place. The bump and run and D-Line rules take away the defense's ability to get a decent pass rush without sacrificing coverage, as well as not being able to throw off the timing of the routes, which is critical in stopping them. Also, the inability to move more than one player on defense hinders this. You can manually control one safety, but what about the other side of the field? Smart corner route users will have corner options on BOTH sides of the field, with the idea that a player can only control one defender.
So, the question is, how to limit this? Do we make a rule against corners? I don't think you do.... there are only a few routes you can run in the first place, and taking away the outside routes enables defenses to clog the middle of the field, which will make it hard to pass AND to run. Limiting them MIGHT be feasible, but I only need to throw 5 corner routes in a game to make them a factor.
Then you get into the realm of limiting OTHER things on offense. The fly-streak, when thrown correctly, is VERY effective, especially with a fast WR and a QB with good arm strenght. Do we limit that, too?
Do we limit slants off the bump, or just past the LBs in zone?
There is plenty that is effective in this game, and the way the defensive rules are set up, unless you have a stellar defense to work with, you're going to have issues with anyone who has played this game enough to know what works.
I do know that everyone I've played has thrown a corner route at least 3 or 4 times per game. I don't mind, because I know that they're there. They're not glitches, and they are a skill that has to be mastered. But if you really want to stop them, you have to be able to make them ineffective. To make them ineffective, you'll have to change the defensive rules a bit. People will run them as long as they work, as long as they want to be successful in this game. I personally use them as my bailout route if every other route in my play is covered, because I know they'll usually be open and will have a low risk for an INT. But because the defense in this game is so much better than last year, most of the other routes can be taken away easily, forcing a player to go with the "money" to have any shot against a decent player.
It's a tough situation to wrap your hands around, really, because you're dealing with limiting an offense that is already severely limited, both in this game and moreso in this league.
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Post by Poundtherock on Dec 6, 2004 12:19:50 GMT -5
I can't vote on this yet, Commish, because I got a question, or maybe two first. Are we all on the same page as to what a "corner route" entails? Is the corner route spoken of here any route that is so named in the playbook? Is the corner route spoken of here any route that a WR ends up running toward the corner? Is the corner route spoken of here any route that any pass receiver, WR or RB or TE, ends up running toward the corner? Is the corner route spoken of here mean that it is a corner route regardless of where the receiver started from? I know these are somewhat infantile questions, but sometimes the simplified verbage used here regarding corner routes sounds like it would be ANY pass receiver, wherever he may come from, ends up running to the corner. IS that the case? I guess that was more than two questions. ;D What happens when somebody up and says, "I can't stop that out pattern or that drag route? We have to stop and think about restricting certain "plays." It could very well end up as a "can of worms." From the looks of things there are a lot of ways to counter a corner route so it is not a "game glitch." I think a lot of it has to do with WHEN you use a counter play to stop any route, corner or otherwise. Restricting a play is a lot different than restricting a line shift, etc. And even after we ruled out the line spread, now everybody is spreading the LBs and blitzing the outside on all downs. ;D ;D
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Post by dazednconfused on Dec 6, 2004 12:31:23 GMT -5
but see DAZE the bump n run can help you on the corner routes, enabling the receiver taking longer to get on his route and return hoping you get pressure. My point on the corner routes are the guys that throw there numer 1 receiver in the slot and then roll out in the direction of the corner route. its nearly unstoppable unless you have a great secondary. I almost refuse to throw corner routes in this game, cuase i know how it pisses me off so bad. I here you. The person I played however abused the bump. I ran 41 offensive playes 34 were bumped. I never once called a corner route. It's not my style. Same as you I hate then so much I refuse to run it. Dazed. ;D
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Post by Petrags23 on Dec 6, 2004 14:39:35 GMT -5
but see DAZE the bump n run can help you on the corner routes, enabling the receiver taking longer to get on his route and return hoping you get pressure. My point on the corner routes are the guys that throw there numer 1 receiver in the slot and then roll out in the direction of the corner route. its nearly unstoppable unless you have a great secondary. I almost refuse to throw corner routes in this game, cuase i know how it pisses me off so bad. I agree with what you say about how when the QB rolls out it is nearly impossibe to stop. Also, if you bump and run the corner route, it is really a hit or miss type of deal. Because if your corner is weak, or if he just plain gets beat, he will get smoked by the WR and then it's off to the races... Bumping the corner is like a 50/50 chance.
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Post by Tony79 on Dec 6, 2004 16:08:24 GMT -5
I agree petrags on that, but it gives you somewhat of a chance to defend it, or atleast give you time to get some pressure. But like you said before, people know this is an issue, but they still throw them, I dont understand why people want to win a game so bad that they take advantage of a flaw in madden AI this year. This just doesnt make sense to me, its a video game, but it does get the best of all at times. I have went through so many controllers out of fustration. What I think it comes down to his the person itself. Just have good morals about playing a video game, where here to have fun with madden online and to make friends with people we wouldnt have so if it wasnt for madden. its respect and people should learn that in our league. I know they wouldnt want to be thrown on corner routes all game. I dont want to be in a shoot out game by usuing flaws in the game. This is such a soar subject for me, but its up to the owners to make this problem dissapear not by rules.
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Post by gregobomb84 on Dec 6, 2004 16:23:11 GMT -5
While - If we can spread the d-line and rush in on passing plays it can help easily.
then the corner route should be limited to no more than 7-10 times.
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Post by Tony79 on Dec 6, 2004 16:51:59 GMT -5
no offense gottabesweet. but I maybe run what 40 plays a game during a normal game. say 15 to 20 of those are rushed that would say 50% of my passes would be corner routes. That is to many in my eyes.
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Post by Poundtherock on Dec 6, 2004 17:12:53 GMT -5
Ummm...what's a corner route. No, I'm not kidding. You guys are avoiding Wags' question. And also my post above. Well, everybody except Underdogg. Are we all REALLY on the same page as to what a "corner route" entails? Is the corner route spoken of here any route that is so named in the playbook? Is the corner route spoken of here any route that a WR ends up running toward the corner? Is the corner route spoken of here any route that any pass receiver, WR or RB or TE, ends up running toward the corner? Is the corner route spoken of here mean that it is a corner route regardless of where the receiver started from? I know these are somewhat infantile questions, but sometimes the simplified verbage used here regarding corner routes sounds like it would be ANY pass receiver, wherever he may come from, ends up running to the corner. IS that the case? I guess that was more than two questions. What happens when somebody up and says, "I can't stop that out pattern or that drag route? We have to stop and think about restricting certain "plays." It could very well end up as a "can of worms." From the looks of things there are a lot of ways to counter a corner route so it is not a "game glitch." I think a lot of it has to do with WHEN you use a counter play to stop any route, corner or otherwise. Restricting a play is a lot different than restricting a line shift, etc. And even after we ruled out the line spread, now everybody is spreading the LBs and blitzing the outside on all downs. No offense meant to anyone, but what do you, personally, see as a "corner route?" Those that have been posting surely must know what they see as a corner route. Do you agree with Underdogg or do you see it different? And if so, what?
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Post by GoPanthers98 on Dec 6, 2004 17:13:53 GMT -5
Almost all the other routes are money if thrown correctly, especially against man coverage. Button hooks, slants, posts, out's, in's, flat routes against slow linebackers. If you have to resort to the corner route against a good player, if he truely is a good player he'll make you pay by user picking it. If you keep him off balanced and use it when he's not expecting it, it can irritate him.
To sit here and tell me that you have to master the skill of throwing a corner route though, I mean I shouldn't have even bothered reading the rest of your post. It's not hard at all to throw a corner route, you could sit in practice mode for 5 minutes and you'd be able to throw them against any defense for a completion
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Post by Petrags23 on Dec 6, 2004 17:29:28 GMT -5
To sit here and tell me that you have to master the skill of throwing a corner route though, I mean I shouldn't have even bothered reading the rest of your post. It's not hard at all to throw a corner route, you could sit in practice mode for 5 minutes and you'd be able to throw them against any defense for a completion Trueeeeeeeeeeeeee.
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