|
Post by Poundtherock on Aug 29, 2006 19:43:20 GMT -5
However I think we all need to give AM a few game ONLINE and then give the input. Really? I'm sure this was RE: me, Dazed, but, if I'm not mistaken, comments were welcomed by the Commish, just not comments on how AM is ONLINE when you haven't played a game ONLINE!! As I said earlier, this is just not about how AP/AM is interpreted ONLINE. Each individual here, all 32, may have different ways of interpreting how the game reacts on AP or AM. I don't think anything or anyone is more important than members' input, and it's input that should not be discounted at this juncture, and should not be evaluated JUST on the basis of playing a couple of games ONLINE. As the Commish said, I, or even you, Dazed, may interpret the effects of the game ONLINE in a totally different way or it may be the same, but one or the other may envision something that could develop down the road that would create an even bigger problem than a simple WR jumping over the CB's back and catching a pass. God forbid! That has been going on for freaking years and no mention of jumping to AM before, lol! I don't think just simply playing a couple of games ONLINE makes anyone the fortune teller of things to come. More than just one facet of this equation should be evaluated before thinking that the bandaid is the cure, rather than the actual treatment. In other words, more than just ONLINE input needs to be considered, and it should be from more than just a few respondents such as I. No offense, Dazed, as none was meant with any of my remarks. I just felt it was directed at me since I seem to be the only respondent that has not "played" AM ONLINE! But as I said earlier, I will roll with the flow; so keep that in mind!
|
|
|
Post by dazednconfused on Aug 29, 2006 20:20:25 GMT -5
However I think we all need to give AM a few game ONLINE and then give the input. Really? I'm sure this was RE: me, Dazed, but, if I'm not mistaken, comments were welcomed by the Commish, just not comments on how AM is ONLINE when you haven't played a game ONLINE!! As I said earlier, this is just not about how AP/AM is interpreted ONLINE. Each individual here, all 32, may have different ways of interpreting how the game reacts on AP or AM. I don't think anything or anyone is more important than members' input, and it's input that should not be discounted at this juncture, and should not be evaluated JUST on the basis of playing a couple of games ONLINE. As the Commish said, I, or even you, Dazed, may interpret the effects of the game ONLINE in a totally different way or it may be the same, but one or the other may envision something that could develop down the road that would create an even bigger problem than a simple WR jumping over the CB's back and catching a pass. God forbid! That has been going on for freaking years and no mention of jumping to AM before, lol! I don't think just simply playing a couple of games ONLINE makes anyone the fortune teller of things to come. More than just one facet of this equation should be evaluated before thinking that the bandaid is the cure, rather than the actual treatment. In other words, more than just ONLINE input needs to be considered, and it should be from more than just a few respondents such as I. No offense, Dazed, as none was meant with any of my remarks. I just felt it was directed at me since I seem to be the only respondent that has not "played" AM ONLINE! But as I said earlier, I will roll with the flow; so keep that in mind! This was not directed towards anyone imparticular ( you know what? I just learned this isn't a word! lol). You can't however make a judgment when only playing off line against the AI either. I just think that everyone needs to not only experience with it online I would do the same off line as well. Why is everyone so against making a change? I just think that too many people are too quick to make a decision. There hasn't been one made at all!! We are only giving our opinions here. I just simply stated that before everyone gives the hook on All Madden mode they need to experience it online first. We all know how different a real player is as opposed to the AI. I also just wanted to let everyone know that if we do stick to All PRo and the game scores get out of hand they better be ready for a heavy amount of blitzing! There are countless times I go to practice mode and something works GREAT. Well guess what? When we go online it works like crap! I just want everyone to make a decision based on both off line and online play. Thats all!! ;D
|
|
|
Post by tdogg on Aug 29, 2006 22:10:05 GMT -5
i played 3 allpro games today, and none of them went over 30 points, one was 10-0 the defensive thing is just something you have to learn. Learn how to control the CBs and Safeties the same way you learned how to use the WR and user Catch, and you will be fine.
I know i was moanin and groanin about it 2 days ago how wrs catch everything but then i went into mini camp spent about 20 mins on Swat ball, and i came back online today and won 3 in a row. You can shut alot of passing down with the right plays. yes when people do PA your safeties stand there looking dumb, but i always control my safeties anyway.
and once again im siding with PTR, with saying i am one with the WORST team in the game (even with having a better record than other teams in this game) and i dont complete enough passes as is. for me to go into all madden witih the schedule i have, there is no way, i will even be able to compete and like i said im about 6 out of 10 in this game right now, and trust me i practice everyday
|
|
|
Post by scarolinafan on Aug 29, 2006 22:13:54 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with controlling the DB or safety for All-Pro games. It's a well known fact that awareness for defensive players severely lags to those on offense every game on All-Pro. You can put your guys in a position to succeed and 9 times out of 10 they sit there with their thumb up their ass going duuuuuhhhh what to do what to do.
|
|
|
Post by dazednconfused on Aug 29, 2006 22:16:24 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with controlling the DB or safety for All-Pro games. It's a well known fact that awareness for defensive players severely lags to those on offense every game on All-Pro. You can put your guys in a position to succeed and 9 times out of 10 they sit there with their thumb up their ass going duuuuuhhhh what to do what to do. I hear you there. Then you need to rely on the AI to give you the right guys when you try to knock it down manually.
|
|
|
Post by scarolinafan on Aug 29, 2006 22:19:07 GMT -5
I'm not the best at the game but I'm not a novice either and when I manually control the safety the whole play and jump a corner route and continue to watch the TE go up in triple coverage and come down with the ball 7 out of 10 times something is wrong with the AI. Especially seeing that the DB's never leave their feet.
|
|
|
Post by Poundtherock on Aug 30, 2006 1:28:56 GMT -5
Lol! Wow, SCF, damn, I bet if your were in AM manually sticking the safety you could have pulled that ball down and took it to the house for 6." j/k You know, first and foremost, no one is giving the “hook” to AM. AM is not currently the sim style play of SAPML, AP is. So if anything, the so-called “hook” is being attempted at AP. Outside of Shanks and Glad, only 8 players, and that includes me as well, have voiced an opinion on this subject. The opinions range from adamantly against AP to adamantly for AP to a couple who just sit back and wait for the dust to settle, that being Shanks and Glad, lol. there. I think everybody makes good points for their reasoning of how they feel. But I believe we have taken the discussion and made it into an AP bashing instead of, “is AM really the answer to something that is created by Tiburon? And are we jumping from the frying pan into the fire because of a couple of “pains” in somebody’s ass? I allude to what Madc55 said in his post: “However I do agree with some of the points taken by Poundtherock and my vote is for all-pro. Also guys i know right now you guys are getting all these high scores but please remember alot of these same prbs I'm hearing from guys posting we had in last years madden. I remember there being alot of high scores, I remember there being alot of passes completed with 3 guys on them however in this league and Mine i had a load of fun in each(madden 06). All this things that bother you guys you all so have to remember as much as we want to be "Sim" as possible its still a video game and I want all league members to have fun..... the fact is the more games we play the better we will get on the defensive side as well.” This is in line with what I said earlier, this is not about bashing AM, it is about taking a style of play of the league, AP, and just throwing it out the window because 2 of 3 have found they personally don’t like it for one or two reasons. Is that really enough to discount it? This is the only forum, regretfully so, that I see that has even suggested a switch from AP to AM because of the defensive A/I reasons, yet there is this mentality that if we “can’t get rid of the d-line spread rule, let’s just switch to AM and we won’t have to address calling a defense to keep that measly mouth QB from completing a 50 yard pass for a TD. Fourteen points were scored against me last season in a game I lost by less than twelve. Two long passes that caught me in the wrong defense made the difference. What beat me was my mistake and his capitalizing on it. Three seasons ago I would have been the first to say, “he beat me because of that stupid lob that’s in the game.” We know it, don’t we? But last season, I started looking at my losing was more “my fault” as the reason my opponent won the game and not the game itself. Sure there are still glitches, some in ’07 still to surface, but the game is what it is, a game, a game that Tiburon (what a rough ass job) has tried to make palatable to everyone in this thread, and they’ve done a pretty damn good job, although we still gripe every year. I guess what I am trying to say is, “it’s not the damn game, stupid, it’s the player!” I heard that somewhere and it sounded good, lol. I don’t think the advocates of AP are anything except advocates of SAPML, not members who are trying to hold the league back, but members who are trying to preserve a sense of a level playing field for all 32 members. I really don’t think AM opponents are anything but SAPML proponents. After all, they are not trying to change SAPML, they are just trying to maintain the sanctity of what is, not what it could be. Is change good? Sure. But only if careful thought is given to the changes, not hasty actions because someone thinks that they have found a better mousetrap. Even the proponents of AM change only quote a few things that they say is wrong with AP, but some of that has been evident for years. Their points are good and respected. However, just as much weight should be given to members who believe that AP is best kept for the league, at least for this season. This is not the time to be discussing a league-wide change on such an important topic when a majority of the league knows nothing about it. I can see the look when members start rambling back in, many of which have been in the league since it’s’ inception. No one here believes that a decision to change has been made, however, the belief has been put forward that that is a distinct possibility, and a quick change at that. The “fire, fire, fire” was raised by proponents of a change to AM. The only answer that supporters of AP have had is “water, water, water," and as we can see here, AP proponents remain steadfast. Until and someone steps up and makes some relevant arguments to convince me that a move to AM would be beneficial to all, I, and I’m sure others above, will remain steadfast with AP, but open to further discussion. Suggestions of problems in AP that have been made here have been around for many seasons. AP is still the same, AM is still the same, it’s just the opinions of who you talk to at the time. Madden can’t be everything to everyone all the freaking time. And neither should we run every time someone yells fire! And sorry, playing a couple of AM games ONLINE will not make someone an advocate of AM, much less having to use it all season long, nor does it mean that those that have done so should be ignored of their opinions. This thread is for discussion, or it used to be, on moving from AP to AM on the suggestion of one of our members. Although I don’t disagree, I still don’t think that members should be precluded from giving OFFLINE peripheral “opinions” simply because they have not played a game ONLINE. Adverse ramifications of this move might not possibly surface until later in the season and the nuances of a couple of games ONLINE may very well go unnoticed to anyone other than a skilled veteran. However, one immediate caveat to a skilled veteran is that many user INT catches will be run back for TDs in AM. The offensive players in AM after the INT are like, to use someone’s wording above, standing around with their thumbs up their ass. It’s a defensive TD every time unless the INT happens in the middle of the field. Did I read that somewhere? No. Does that happen with regularity in the real NFL (for those making comparisons)? No. And that you can take to the bank! There are pluses and minuses on both sides of the fence. And hell no, to repeat, a damn decision to switch to AM has not been made! I agree! But if no one spoke up for the other side of the issue, would there already have been a decision? A tree fell in the forest and there was someone around to hear it, lol. And quit with the “play some AM ONLINE and then give input stuff, lol. We been there, done that and now it's still status quo. Even though there are more AP proponent voices here at present than AM voices speaking up on the subject, however so few of either, at this time I am very skeptical of SAPML remaining on the AP level, so start practicing guys, lol. And I don't even have a vote, lol. (PTR mumbles under breath......"and back when I was a radio jock, I did not ever believe that AM would make a comeback.
|
|
|
Post by ChuckDiesel on Aug 30, 2006 5:08:33 GMT -5
Let's give this a little more time. No bashing. Just observations. I've only played 1 game AM so far, and Vick got pulverized by SCF's Cardinals. It wasn't the INDY pb, it was the play-calling, as I thought Vick could throw for 300 yards anytime I wanted him to.
|
|
|
Post by madc55 on Aug 30, 2006 5:25:50 GMT -5
Chuck and Donnie,
I hear your guys but lets be honest in my league and this one with as much as you guys play sure you going to be towards the top of both leagues.(as you should be with the time and effort you guys put in) Donnie/Chuck you may not look at yourself as a great player but honestly all mbcer's do.....you guys are considered our top players(year in and year out). there is a handfull of players that do well everyear in our league and always make the playoffs. Donnie your are always there a the end or close to it and your track record is great for both leagues. Lets be honest though not eveyone in the league is like you and chuck and we have alot of guys that have big families and lot of others stuff going on(not saying you guys don't but everyone handles/manages time diffrently) that if a switch was made to AM and some of the other stuff that was mentioned we would of lost a good amount of mbcmo members as the league went on this year. Thats why having a 30/32 members return last year and having still 20 members from madden 03 is important to me and I look out for whats best for the leagues sake. My goal has never been about getting the top players out their and I think thats why the league has stayed pat so long, its been about finding members that will have fun, follow the rules, and build relationships with eachother. You guys make great points and I understand that but for every donnie and chuck I say majority of the guys get one a few times a week at best and I'm fine with that becasue everyone's managing their time/lives is diffrent while they have stayed honest and true to the league. My goal has always been to make the league fun and keep the core together and I along with Donnie,Dave,Chuck have done that. Making alot of the switches you guys have brought up(good ideas def.) but not as a whole for my league. Once again guys I just speaking about my league but the same seems to be said about this one as its really just a handful of guys talking on this matter. Just my thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by scarolinafan on Aug 30, 2006 6:25:41 GMT -5
No on AM though I do believe atleast 1 of the 3 players would have made an attempt and could have atleast knocked the ball away.
I guess my biggest point is if the league wants a bunch of college type games (ie both teams constantly scoring in the 40's) then AP seems to be the way to go. If the league wants more sim type results then AM is the way to go. Everyone has families and balances their time accordingly. I for one have played 'nowhere' near what I would've in the past. A baby changes that. Having said that I still make time (after he and wife are asleep) to try and get in some games to have fun and to practice. I won't be nearly as competitive as in years past and I just see AM being what I thought this league and MBCMO was about. Most consistent sim style games around.
|
|
|
Post by tdogg on Aug 30, 2006 7:39:59 GMT -5
Ok my turn to jump back in. 1st. Damn u PTR your post are so long but so good to read. Maybe because i agree with you 2nd. I got kicked out of madc league last year sorry for whatever it was lol forgot!
3rd Ok i played until half time with Dep last night on AM 1st game, Cards vs. 9ers, he passed alot to TRY and show me the difference and you know what. the only difference i saw was that the actual WRs dropped more open passes than what the Defense had to do with anything. Dazed was right all the CBs do in all madden is intercept somewhere away from WR's and run to get a TD. But since Dep is an Elite player he did what he willed against me in the passing game. the same damn thing he coulda done to me in All Pro, he was like 10-10 at one point with Warner. DIFFERENCE THERE? = NONE oh and the score was outrageous at half something like 21-10 at half time. so that leads me to believe there was more to come
NEXTGAME
we played another Half just a few mins ago this morning. I was colts he was Pitt. all i saw was his Wrs again dropping alot more passes than what my defense had to do with anything. but he still caught a few to. i only got interceptions when my Defense was in groups, and someone tipped the ball or something. Manning and harrison were monsters i still threw 2 bombs to harrison that worked, a few to Stokely and Wayne. (coulda done that on AP as well) no with no disrespect to Donnie he said it was because of blown coverages and me taking control of the WR (accidently) weaving (but that was just me trying to controll him and get to the circle like the drill teaches u in superstar mode). There is blown coverages in AP, the score was 14-7 at half time. lol and if i woulda had that extra sec Dep i woulda PA bombed it to Harrison for a TD i dont know why you dont believe me.
Basically maybe i need to play a full game, but like ive been saying its the player no tthe game setting.
like i said i played about 3 other all pro games, last night with none of them going over 30 points
hell Pats scored 41 agasint the redskins on sunday night. highscores are bound to happen, but no one is advocate or has stepped up to say, my game vs. ........ didnt go over 21 in an all pro game. which I have said repeatedly.
besides when ur playing 4 min ranked games on AP ofcourse ur goign to score more cuz ur out of ur game plan just tossing up alot and trying to score. 6 mins u get time to strategize and run the ball. think of that?
|
|
|
Post by scarolinafan on Aug 30, 2006 7:51:23 GMT -5
TDogg I swear you're still half asleep. LOL I never said anything about a blown coverage in our game. I had 2 dropped passes this morning and was a WOEFUL 7-20 with 2 INT's. And the bomb that you speak of to Harrison you did a good job and i did a pathetic job totally mistiming my jump. There weren't bombs thrown all over the place like you say. Score was 14-7 at the half with me having turned the ball over 3 times (2 INT 1 fumble) and Indy 1 INT. A 14-7 game at the half is what you'd expect on AM. And 41-0 is a abberation in the NFL. Why do you think the weekly spreads are usually around 4 points for most games? My problem with AP is the games that you see 44-41 with over 800 yds of offense combined between the two teams. By the way TDogg, it's time to wake up and go to class. :-)
|
|
|
Post by dazednconfused on Aug 30, 2006 8:01:19 GMT -5
I'm done. It is what it is.
|
|
|
Post by tdogg on Aug 30, 2006 11:22:19 GMT -5
Lol Dep the way our cardinal 9ers game was going you coulda scored 40 points at will, dont forget we were only at 5 mins at that time anyway. I really do think its the players not really the settings. im just saying yes there was alot of dropped passes but like i said it wasnt because my defesne was on you. the wr just dropped it. as for the ints, you saw when there was 3 people around the ball, lol damnit that shoulda been one. the other one my guy just stepped in front. I have to admit the only difference is the CBs have better hands. but speed wise there is no difference. to me. maybe i need to just play someone on my level.
but then again that would be semi pointless considering, we have a cardinals 49ers game (2 of them) to play this season. so i will be playing people of your caliber all season and no matter if its AP or AM i will be getting my ass handed to me. its as simple as that. 49ers are the worst in the worst in the game (and no one can argue against that) I love my team, dont get me wrong but when it comes to madden there are just some things that are unjust. how the hell did the TExans get better ratings? anyway the point is, i saw no difference everything moved the same. you still had 40 secs to pick a play and running was still running and passing was still passing. whehter you woulda caught a few extra balls being on AP whatever because you shoulda caught the ones that were dropped, and if all AM has to offer is me dropping open passes, then why would i want to play it.
thats my only argument. nothing against anyone who wants to play it. but like ptr said only 8 guys are in here voicing there opinion its not enough to over rule the play setting.
i think we should just leave it at this if you want to play all madden just do what youve been doing the whole time. play with other people. hell for all i care if commish wants to leave it at your opponents discretion if you play all madden or all pro.
|
|
|
Post by dazednconfused on Aug 30, 2006 11:44:36 GMT -5
hell for all i care if commish wants to leave it at your opponents discretion if you play all madden or all pro. Yea thats not going to work!
|
|